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Independence
Frogmarch 2002 - Whitby
tobyaw
So… in 2014 we get to vote in a referendum on independence from the United Kingdom. In 2017 we get to vote in a referendum on independence from the European Union.

I assume that if we, as a country, vote yes for the first, then we won’t get the chance to vote for the second.

What do we do if we fancy both?
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(Deleted comment)
Well, yes. Except that the major parties at Holyrood are relentlessly pro-EU. So there won’t be any choice in the matter.

Of course, the EU may not permit an independent Scotland to join in a manner that is appealing to the electorate, so that may not be an option.

If you want both you have a problem

I think that's pretty clear...

If you vote for independence you have the avowedly pro-European SNP in power. If the result of the independence vote is a "yes" to independence, you will have effectively voted for a considerably more pro-European party of government than exists in Westminster.

Edited at 2013-01-23 11:01 pm (UTC)

Re: If you want both you have a problem

The SNP will very probably not be the governing party after the first election after Independence. They will quite possibly tear themselves apart once they don't have independence holding them together...

(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
Simple: Move to England between 2014 and 2017!

If Scotland votes yes to independence, beware... Westminster might want to place restrictions on economic / political migrants moving South!

Edited at 2013-01-23 11:10 pm (UTC)

Aaah,but we'd have freedom of movement throughout Europe, including the rest of the UK, until they voted to leave it!

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's time to resurrect the Kingdom of the Isles and Man.

Would it take military action for the Scottish islands to annex Man? Or do you foresee more of a coming together of like-minded islanders?

Would the Scottish islands annex Man or vice versa? The population of the Isle of Man is about the same as the Hebrides, Shetland and Orkney combined.

But yes, I imagine a coming-together of like-minded islanders with low taxes and living off oil revenues without having to subsidise lowland scivers...

I think you have to decide what country you want to live in: an independent Scotland, a UK that's part of the EU, or a UK that's not part of the EU. The one option that doesn't currently appear to be on the table is an independent Scotland that isn't part of the EU, because the pro-independence lobby seem to be predominantly pro-Europe as well. If that's what you want, then I guess you're out of luck.

What you certainly don't get to do is to be a citizen of an independent Scotland with any say over whether the remainder of the UK stays in the EU or not. Just as if the UK does (heaven forfend) leave the EU, we shouldn't expect to have any further say in what the rest of Europe does.

On the basis that polling suggests that Scottish independence is increasingly unpopular, I suspect we’ll all get a chance to vote in the 2017 referendum on EU membership.

As the EU referendum depends on Mr C getting back in I don't think you have an issue.
He may be a Decent Chap who is just misunderstood but we can't see that cutting it with the down trodden masses.
Two ideas come to mind.
We could abandon the EU and join Scotland ( i.e. let the Scottish parliament run England as well) or just admit the whole thing is a cock up and elect the first Teddy Bear government.
This Bear would be happy to serve and has some very definite policy ideas in the matter of Kapok tax.
One other thought.
This 'ere Scottish referendum?
Who gets to vote?
Do you have to have a Scottish Grandmother or just live there 'cause if it is the latter doesn't that mean that lots of English will be voting to leave England?
Weird.

Qualification is by residency, so a lot of people who are English by birth but live here will have a vote, while a lot of people who are Scots by birth but live elsewhere won't. Some of those excluded are whinging about it, but really there's no other sensible way to do it.

Edited at 2013-01-24 07:18 pm (UTC)

One could argue that all members of a union should have a vote in choosing whether to break up that union. I suspect if the English and Welsh had a vote in the referendum, then Scottish independence would be somewhat likelier.

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